Chat! Sunflower Bean in Brighton
The New York indie rockers are a band with something to say, a reactionary message that goes beyond their lyrics and aims to get young people speaking out
A couple of hours before they took the stage for their first Brighton headline gig at The Old Market, I sat down with New York trio Sunflower Bean. My revealing chat with vocalist and bassist, Julia Cumming, guitarist Nick Kivlen and drummer Jacob Faber began by talking about Brighton and their music, but quickly developed into an empassioned conversation about activism and how artists can use their reach to help bring about change.
Let me begin by asking you about Brighton. This is your third visit in a year.
Julia: Is it? Gee!
I saw you support Wolf Alice last November, then you played Concorde 2 in April. So what brings you back so often and what do you like about the place?
Julia: You might say we’re fond of it. Brighton was one of the first places we got to know in the UK because we played The Great Escape. We did two gigs: at Horatio’s on the Pier and another at the Corn Exchange.
Have you had a chance to look around?
Julia: Oh yeah, we’ve walked around. We mainly try to go to vintage places. We got here early this morning, we played Leeds last night. We’re travelling by bus, it’s the most affordable way of touring.
As a young band, how challenging economically is it to come and tour places like Europe and Asia?
Nick: It’s extremely challenging. There’s a lot of overhead. We basically make less than any other profession that works the hours we do, because when you’re on tour, it’s a 24-hour thing. So yes, it’s really hard.
So, what’s the biggest frustration? Is it not having enough money to put into your production?
Julia: I think better lighting is definitely an important factor in a live show. There are also a lot of other things we’re thinking about to try to move with the times. But you gotta do what you can. We weren’t born with silver spoons in our mouths!
Nick: Some things are easier, some things are harder. Supporting for a long time can get kind of draining. It’s hard to gauge an audience when they don’t really know you and haven’t heard any of your songs. But then it’s also very rewarding when you feel like they’re into you and giving you a lot of admiration.
Julia: Sometimes when you support, you walk onto the stage in dead silence, which can be kind of deflating.
Of course, many seem to think that being in a band is a glamour profession, but what are the realities of touring when you don’t have the trappings of fame?
Julia: Of course there’s the gritty reality of washing your underwear in the sink and that kind of stuff which isn’t ideal, but I wanna talk about some of the good things. The only way you understand a city when touring is by how the show goes. You also get to meet tons of amazing people, you experience new food — we were in Asia these past two weeks. You also get to spend time with people in a really intimate way that just doesn’t exist in other professions and from it you make lasting friendships.
Nick: Right now we’re living our dreams. It doesn’t matter how little money we have or how uncertain the future feels, because we’re doing what we love.
This time round things are a little different, you’ve got four people on stage. What was the thinking behind adding an extra musician?
Julia: On the records we like to explore the production, the instruments and layers, so I think while we’ve always loved being a three piece, we always had in mind that eventually we’d add some more players so we could put on a more complete show, without having to use backing tracks.
Nick: We’re such a live band, that wouldn’t work for us.
Julia: Having Danny (from The Lemon Twigs) playing keyboards, guitar and bass, also gives me an opportunity to perform and sing in a different way as I’m not always playing bass. We’re a guitar band, so it’s nice to be able to have two guitars in some songs.
Not content with releasing your sophomore album this year, you’ve just put out a brand new single taken from an EP you’re putting out in January. I believe you recorded it in LA with Justin Raisen at the helm. That single, Come For Me, has been described as being more savage and viral.
Julia: It was the first song we wrote for the EP. We were doing our June tour and thinking a lot about how music is released now in 2018 and we definitely had something to say and wanted the opportunity to say it. So when we were in LA we met with Justin who we’d been talking to for a while. His energy is really intense and very different from most other producers. He comes from the same part of New York as we do and we’ve always loved his production. He produced the Angel Olsen record and Sky Ferreira’s Night Time, My Time. It was a quick process, we recorded four tracks in just 8 days. Come for Me came really naturally. It was something Nick had been working on on guitar. The song is about fighting, about having your hands up in anticipation.
What difference did Justin make to your sound?
Jacob: He knows how to make rock sound not exhausted. We recorded it in a garage, an actual garage, no isolation, and it sounded great – like pop music, but with the guts of rock.
You describe the new music as being “reactionary – a sharpened response to our times.”
Julia: It’s reactive in general.
Well, there’s certainly a lot to react to. Coming from the same city as Trump and having travelled extensively around America, how have you see the country changing these past 2 years?
Julia: I think there’s a lot less complacency. A lot of people have had the shades kind of opened and overall that’s a good thing, I think things in general are pretty rough, especially for people of colour and they’re exceptionally bad for the queer community. We’re a bunch of white kids and we try to use what we have, our thoughts and our creativity, to try and do what we can. The silver lining is we’ve noticed a lot of people feel similarly to us. In order to do something you have to feel that way, not only when things are bad, especially if you want to create and maintain a world you actually want to live in.
Which brings us neatly to the Anger Can Be Power* movement. I understand it was created to give young people an opportunity to get engaged and speak up?
(* The name comes from a lyric in The Clash song Clampdown: “Anger can be power, you know you can use it”)
Julia: It’s kind of experimental. I started it last October. It’s my personal endeavour. The idea is us young creatives have a lot of energy that could be applied to this space of activism. And finding a way to make activism work within your own interests is one of the strongest ways to get foster engagement. So since what I know most is shows and live events, I wanted to create a place where people could come and meet in a politically focused setting without it feeling like a classroom.
How many events have you held so far?
Julia: I’ve done five. They’ve all been in New York City. I haven’t done one for a while because we’ve been touring.
Do they get filmed?
Julia: Yes, my second event was with Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, who has become one of the absolute stars of and the new face of the Democratic party. She won a spot for Congress and helped flip the house. I think it shows the people who are campaigning and our constituents are actually a lot closer than we can ever imagine.
Is merch available with the Anger Can Be Power slogan?
Julia: Not yet, but one of my friends made me a sweatshirt with it on and I have a couple of merch things planned.
This is clearly something you’re very passionate about and presumably something you hope will grow?
Julia: Definitely.
Is it a nonprofit?
Julia: It’s not a nonprofit yet, it’s completely an experiment. I’m financing it myself. I haven’t blown it up into something I couldn’t maintain. I do have a team around it and everyone here has been involved in different ways. I don’t have a university degree, I’m not a journalist, but I do have an idea and my hope is that if I do something and put myself out there, maybe more people will have the courage to do the same. By growing and making mistakes, it will show people they can make mistakes too.
Historically, musicians have always used their reach as a platform for getting across issues they feel strongly about. It does seem to be a rising trend thesedays, how do you feel the current political climate is changing the musical landscape? Whether that’s about the economy, racial tension or the environment…
Nick: I think music has always been related to activism in a lot of ways. To some extent, all art is political, it’s always going to be reflective of the time it’s made.t
A lot of the time it’s been within the lyrics, but nowadays social media is an even better platform to spread a message…
Julia: Because social media is such a big part of how a person in quote-unquote public might interact with those around them, people feel as though they know you — people are looking to those they follow for their beliefs and artists do have to say something. It’s hard to know what your responsibility is all the time, but in general I think you have to do what’s natural and when things are so bad for so many, artists do have to say something.
Nick: It’s the realisation of the influence you have, even if it’s just a couple of your fans taking it to heart.
Do you think it’s something that will increasingly transcend into your lyrics?
Julia: It depends. Artists are obviously influenced by their environment and their interests and if things continue to be heinous, I’m sure it will inspire us and inspire many others. I mean if the government took care of the people and had peoples interests in mind, maybe artists wouldn’t need to be constantly thinking they have a responsibility for getting people to sign up and vote. It’s really good and important that we do, because everyone should, but I think when you’re not being protected from the places you should be protected from, everyone has to pick up more slack and that’s kind of what’s going on right now.
Nick: It comes down to the fact that there are so many evil institutions fighting against equality, it’s everyone’s responsibility to do what they can to rail against that.
These days, bands have a lot more control how they interact with their audience and social media is now an integral part of being in a band. Who takes care of it for you?
Julia: All of us contribute. Us three and Crista (Simiriglia) our manager. It’s both cool and overwhelming.
Artists are increasingly looking at new revenue streams, which has given rise to the prominence of VIP packages such as meet and greets, VIP seating and even coming to sound checks, what’s your thought on this? Is it acceptable, or is it just fleecing the fans?
Julia: I think it really depends on what works for that artist. We’ve been offered those situations and declined them. Generally, it’s because it makes us a little uncomfortable. We still go out and sign stuff and talk to people. We do that pretty much every show, as long as it’s not too hectic.
Another trend is no camera shows where audiences have their mobile phones locked away during shows…
Nick: I don’t think we should take peoples’ phones away. I don’t think we should shy away from allowing audiences to record a memory of their night out, if that’s what they choose to do. I think it’s a problem with engagement today — people are too focused on recording their memories, when trying to be more present at the moment should be the most important thing. A lot of the time, we’re thinking about tomorrow, rather than what’s happening right now. We’re thinking about recording what’s in front of us so we can see it later. It’s a personal decision if people wanna live that way. For that reason, I don’t think we’d ever try and take away their phones, but you’ll enjoy the show more if you’re present for it!
When you have time off, what do you get up to?M
Nick: I like to paint.
Julia: When I get home I’m still into music. I really like production and would like to spend more The BRIT Awards have revealed the award design for 2019 by Sir David A’djaye. @dadjaye @AdjayeAssoc. #BRITs” time in studios and understanding that space even more.
Jacob: I’m the same as Julia, whenever I have spare time I like to work on production stuff. One of the weird things about touring is you get really good at playing your songs, but you don’t necessarily get better at your instrument because you’re playing the same songs every night. I come from a background of studying music pretty intensively I played the saxophone for a while and really studied it, but with drums I’ve had zero lessons, so I ’d really like to take a few months to get good!
How far ahead are your lives scheduled?
Nick: 2018’s been the first year that we haven’t been completely scheduled, which for us is quite unusual.
Julia: We’re going on the road with Interpol again in January, right about when the EP comes out, which will be a fun way to play all that material in front of a lot of different people, so that’s on the schedule, as are festival shows. I was thinking about this earlier, after you do so much touring, you’re kind of a different person, but you don’t really know until you’ve done it. I think 2019 will be about finding out who we are on the other side of this and what that might bring creatively.
Behind the image: These portraits were shot handheld with the Olympus OM-D E-M1 and the 1.8 75mm lens using available light only. Taken immediately after the interview, I had no time for anything other than one set-up in the dressing room where there was no natural light. The shoot itself lasted less than a minute.
Special thanks to Thom Williams at Sonic PR for sorting my pass and for organising the interview.
